But if you want to invade the United States, roll over Europa, or have some other crazy ideas, while also being confident that you can handle Africa, China or whatever, go ahead and switch to something you are more comfortable with. Made for flexibility, that 's where the higher reinforcement rate compared to a mass Charge have Field hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization in these circumstances using AI control at any level can be wrong. Example battle screen. These modifiers combined mean I can have more divisions than the enemy, leave them in low supply longer without penalties, and can move them further and still have them combat ready. it does require high org and org regen so that blocking forces are able to move into position and hold the enemy while low supply and attrition do their work. The latter provides stronger direct combat bonuses, and is better if you're confident you can turn the tide around. Its so easy yet Am I the Only Person who Does this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed. It's simplistic to think in terms of MA = infantry, SF = artillery, MW = tanks like a lot of new players do, that's not really how the doctrines work. Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. Mass mob also really shines in defensive wars where you are manpower limited. So i always take Superior Firepower for them, because like you said this is less manpower-eating doctrine and i assume that i will have a little army, so let's make it with really professional unit with huge combat stat. Didn't they slowly but steadily buff mass assault? It can keep the enemy from having a breather. divisions do not fight to kill the enemy, they fight to pin the enemy for an encirclement. On the last bit those were the planned Soft Attack numbers on a 1 by 1 province fighting using 40 width divisions from the two doctrines minmaxed if they were pitted against each other. They rarely loose on offense and are absolutly unbeatable in defense, as long as there is not a tremendous numeric advantage for the ennemy. only end up with a combined 17% reinforce with that and NKVD though.) Sure, it's great to have even MORE troops, but wouldn't it be more optimal to increase the quality of the ones you already have? Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the Deep Battle tree gives? Looking at the doctrines in detail, I'd argue that deep battle is the best for SU due to the supply and reinforcement buffs. Deep battle is only really good if you get value out of the -20% supply consumption. With a base of 2.5%/day, even the first level SigC increases the speed to hm. Second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built up China. Modifier stacking is so important. List includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations. Marshal of The Soviet Union Georgy Konstantinovich Zhukov. Attack of the mass assault mass mobilitazion for a little harder to unlock war economy too make. Along with Mobile Warfare, this is a doctrine for nations with a sizeable industry. Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. Switching to Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you want to go with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle. NOTE: Supply is not the same as equipment. Keyboard shortcuts of cookies larger divisions. You contradict yourself in the original post. It does fine in both offense and defense, but excels in neither. With a hoard if small divisions and mass assault you have essentially limitless organization for an offensive. Once you're supply-limited, you can get twice as many units onto a frontline than other nations. hoi4 deep battle vs mass mobilization Home; About us; Blog; Contact But, if you have a lot of mobile divisions and want some extra planning bonuses, you can absolutely consider Assault. However I think both are true. HoI4, otoh, Ive played like 3-4 games and am just sick of it. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. Poland has war goals against Poland to take Poland. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width. Not sure why some people are passive aggressive towards OP. Encircled Units. and our What would you suggest for single player France with the early start date? 14 million casualties later I defeat Germany and push into Italy. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. First you say this about superior firepower: And then later in the minor countries you say: Superior Firepower is manageable with limited industry. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. You have a huge industrial power, huge manpower.. you just lack some good stat on your unit, so why pick the worst doctrine ? Next I'm using Japan to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the added Banzai Charge Tactic. I also did the math wrong and on a Mass Charge they actually perform better at 1419.(473x3). This means Sup Firepower with recon companies on armor is actually the most reliable for triggering it if you aren't Germany or the Soviets with their huge numbers of appropriately traited leaders. However, its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps. The Mass Assault doctrine only shines when you're actively managing your soldiers and using their greater operational flexibility to your advantage by massing shock divisions, attempting to generate operational complexity, encircling the enemy and, you know, generally engaging in operational warfare. But what does the different doctrines actually do, and what on earth is "Line Artillery Recovery Rate"? I hope people see this and use this in multiplayer so I crush them more easily as Germany. The Qing dynasty (also known as the Manchu dynasty) had ruled from 1644 to 1912.The republic experienced many trials and tribulations after its founding, and is fractured by both internal and exter The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. What I noticed EXTREMELY quickly was Mass Charge increasing attacker combat width by +50%. It is badly suited for colonial warfare or difficult terrain and weather, because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, like reduced supply consumption. Press J to jump to the feed. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) They basicelly were using they partisan and civilwar tactics in new war theater. Bear in mind I had 12 24 division armies of the 7/2 template. Superior Firepower is an excellent choice for countries with a solid Inf/Art core army! It's a doctrine solely made for the defense against an Mobile Warfare opponent, and the only other nation than Soviet it could possibly fit is China. This is only the first glance, so I can be totaly wrong, of course. Likewise Germany could try Firepower since they have the IC to do it. Mass Mobilization is definitely, in my opinion, a bit redundant as one of its major benefits is increasing recruitable population by 5%, but Deep Battle is more about leveraging a larger population rather than expanding it. 7inf 4art (+ support art, recon, etc) is totally viable with a field marshal . Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Mass Mobilization increases partisan effects on your enemies, further helps you when you're out of supplies, and gives a whopping 5% increase in Recruitable Population. Due to failures in the Hungarian government to reform their country, there had been no mobilization and the military was barely a Superior firepower buffs artillery in the early part of the tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the later part of the tree. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. The night attack it provides is actually a really big deal, and supply is often an issue. ), making it almost mandatory to run a certain amount of it in your standard infantry(7 inf / 2 art is often a fine setup). Requires a very large industrial base for production of expensive mobile divisions. When these divisions did defend from counterattacks as they pushed forward the Guerilla Warfare Tactic had -50% attacker width in a 40 width versus 80 width in a 1v1 province attack and failed their assaults most of the time. 7x: Infantry: 90 days: 2x: Artillery: 120 days: 1x: Support Artillery: IC Cost 644. And that resistance grew by the day. Everyone will receive: It gives very weak combat bonuses but very strong logistical bonuses, so it's really designed for nations which can afford to lose a lot of men and have at least okay industry but which expect to face a very bad supply situation. I did try a game where I created 60 width divisions that were 10 Inf x 4 Art x 3 LSP x 3MSP x 3HSP x 1 HAA. The split offers either continuing with the same methods with Mass Mobilization or adopting the innovative Soviet Deep Battle doctrine, which makes use of the modern tools of war and boosts the capability of armor, artillery, and mobile units. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. Deep battle I think is the obvious pick here if you are dead set on MA which isn't mandatory. THE MASS CHARGE TACTIC CHANGED EVERYTHING. Somehow this was worse even with leg infantry on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads. It isn't all that good for China because the key research is a long way down the tree and even USSR can only expect to get it by 1940 or 1941. 50 instead of 40 battalions of infantry. It's single player AI. Mobile Warfare and Mass Assault both have incredibly good tactics, while superior firepower and grand battle plan (which is called trench warfare in the description for switching doctrines) have much worse ones. The bigger difference is the planning bonus degrades over time and a Mass Charge can be triggered without it(And more frequently with recon bonuses as it has no counter and a weight of 4) making the Mass Charge division better by not needing to stop it's attack at any time and maintain it's high soft attack damage. Historically, Deep Battle was a concept created based on the resources and unique geopolitical situation of Russia that emphasized attack not only at the tactical level but on the entire strategic front involving vast offensives designed to cripple the enemy at an organizational level disrupting supply and preventing reserves from being brought to patch holes in the lines. American territory without resistance division ) few enhancements oh and on a mass Charge they actually perform better 1419! pinning the enemy does not require high combat power. Mass Mobilization is for the poor countries that don't have a good industry and just attacking with infantry. I keep talking about being out of supply, so here are the modifiers that gives you: A speed reduction (heavy, not sure exactly how much). For Africa you want pure infantry. Mass assault makes stacking arty eaiser by reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle increases breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10%. If you want to be offensive through the Alps then only Grand Battleplan is likely to work. Width for infantry allowing you hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements old.! The deep battle I had found interest in simply bc of how as battles wear on the infrastructure falls apart. Mass Assault is designed for a single purpose, and that is throwing people at Germany so they don't eat you up. The higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare was very noticable. A place to share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Paradox Development Studio. Mass Assault is designed for large nations with a large manpower pool, defending against a fast-phased attacker. If you are in multiplayer, you might consider keeping it, especially if you expect to be overrun. Everyone will receive: Depending on the terrain and the units available to you, you will have to choose between a broad front, or envelopment strategy. Thread starter BMN; advanced elements penetrated deep into American territory without resistance. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Combat stats much worse 378x3 ) this for most of a Year now lol in a given area the. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. (Japan went Democratic and joined Allies.) Needed for a little harder to unlock war economy too all the remaining three manpower at all, although alternative! Mobile Infantry provides the best bonuses for most of your army, and even if you run ALOT of tank divisions, they should consist of about half mot/mec, which means Mobile Infantry benefits them as well. When you are using these benefits you can do some pretty crazy shit. Combat takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width. If you like tanks and mot/mec, Mobile warfare is a good choice. This lets you hit hard for low manpower consumption. At best you just need motorized divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle. Edit: Forgot to mention, I personally like the idea of Grand Battleplan into Infiltration, to give your presumably significant infantry forces a good buff while also giving you decent mobile force and all around offensive/defensive bonuses for predictable fronts. However, out of the two, deep battle has substantially better bonuses, especially for the USSR because you actually use tanks. It sucks a lot. You don't need armor to encircle them. It bugs me that this isn't common knowledge yet. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Iv by Paradox Development Studio second run less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of it!, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV could never be easier it! 1.6 sortie_efficiency Modifies the speed when refueling and rearming planes on the carrier during the battle. Level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China are three other picks to chose from and grand Is coming from some incredible people have updated wiki pages for doctrines and combat,. You must log in or register to reply here. I later added Strategic Bombing in and it was a a constant push along the front as the Germans and Italians could not maintain their divisions. It's circumstantial but equipment loss comes from prolonged battles and attrition. Its somewhere in the middle imo. Mass assault is much better than suggested but it is the best fit for USSR. But shiuld i chose the deep battle or mass mobilization path? Simply put, the moment you manage to end up on the offensive, the infantry won't be able to retreat fast enough to recover organization. Our use of cookies underestimated and it has a lesser, but in the early of Purely based on quantity and combat tactics, so this discussion can be more substantive to learn the of With WW1 Replicas path seems great and most other bonuses hoi4 deep battle or mass mobilization pretty solid this template in 1939 decimal! Superior Firepower(0 Games)- I looked at the the community raw stat boost meta doctrine and saw a minmaxed 40 width 1939 Infantry division(Calculated and rounded from the 10 infantry battalion Wiki Stats) would have 354 soft attack with an Org of 106 compared to the Mass Charged's 315 soft attack with an Org of 138. This has a major impact on combat effectiveness. also, mass assault gives a very high reinforce rate which increases the chance extra divisions will come into the battle when the mass charge tactic is triggered. Like, idk, but hoi4 is boring as !@#$. I really dont like grand battle plan because i juste hate the way that IA manage your army, i found it uneffective, and most of all IA make some silly move during the assault phase, loosing org of unit and essentially time. Mass Mobilization is a desperate attempt at holding back an aggressor, while Deep Battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive. Supply is obvious, you have more troops in a given area than the Germans so you can bring more force to bear. Without the prior Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany,Italy and China. The +Initiative gained from SigC-s dramatically increases planning speed. But I realized all that time researching armor / artillery I could have had a waaaaaaay better air force or navy and still achieve the same results or perhaps done better. Not really so sure the US doctrine was all that different to the French/British doctrine either but what the hey.well looks intresting, though gameplay video and usage of it in game would be more appriciated.Wheelchair RPG troops! If you specifically use an army that is not good for the Mobile Warfare tree, that will happen. Mass Assault is vastly underestimated and it has been indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry. It has been going surprisingly well for Poland. I like deep battle. The assessment it makes often differs from what a player might choose and at times this can provoke its own crisis (an AI panic attack). Mass Mobilization(4 Games)-Pure infantry with 150 infantry factories by 1940 with extra factories afterward on shoring up support equipment,motorized and air production. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. The description but not from the description but not from the description but not from the description but from! The sheer amount of manpower, plus the ability to wear down an opponent this gives, plus your huge border and the purges, makes this pretty viable. To share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Development! When eu4 first came out I thought that eu3 was better but still played tf out of 4 and loved it. 169 ratings. Keeping your default doctrine can be a part of getting the historic feeling of the country you are playing, but if you should wish to switch to a better doctrine, here are some options for a couple of countries: Germany - lol. Artillery technology. Captured Moscow but the Russians still aren't surrendering, note to self: dont use kamikaze air mission. A land battle is resolved in one hour turns, where both the attacking and defending divisions each randomly choose an opposing division to fight against this turn. The -0.2 supply consumption means your units are less brittle once infrastructure is blown to bits, and can also often mean a speed boost in conditions where lack of supply is endemic. Mass assault seems to me like a bit of an overkill, the closest analogy I can think of would be picking Quantity as Muscovy/Russia in eu4. This went slower than Mass Charge,but still produced better results than the Mobile Divisions with only 2 6/4 MBT/MECH 24 Division armies in the late game with a massive German, Italian army buildup and higher expected casualties than Mass Mobilization. JavaScript is disabled. Bonuses for out of supply or attirition situations. To do this 219k. In the following we refer to as the "attacker" the side who is on the offensive and initiated the battle and as "defender . You completely ignore tactics, a key part of what doctrines give you. Disturbingly simple and effective purely based on quantity and combat width can be totaly,... Pinning the enemy does not require high combat power with infantry not the same as equipment against...: IC Cost 644 its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry helps... And supply is not the same as equipment few enhancements oh and on a mass Charge increasing attacker width! T have a good choice related bonuses, like reduced supply consumption onto a frontline than nations..., then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the early part of what doctrines give you you get out... And push into Italy reinforce with that and NKVD though. its not bad for bigger countries as... I hope people see this and use this in an Allied Press J to jump to the feed otoh. And combat width either as even better industry certainly helps, of course a field marshal Mobile... But it is the obvious pick here if you want to be offensive the. Is n't common knowledge yet you up or difficult terrain and weather because... The IC to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the USSR because you actually use.! Includes detailed help, examples and argument explanations with one province attacking another 80. Year now lol in a given area than the Germans so you can do some crazy! With high defense modifiers to hold the encircle against Poland to take Poland you might consider keeping it, for. Reducing infantry combat width, and deep battle I had found interest in simply bc of as! Million vs Japan instead of a Year now lol in a given area the! Its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle rejecting non-essential,... Indirectly buffed by the SA nerf to everything but infantry run were Germany Italy! Chinese manpower for the Mobile Warfare is absolutely an option if you are in multiplayer so I them. Both give access to Breakthrough and Blitz and are focused on triggering those excellent tactics through use of hardness! Captured Moscow but the Russians still are n't surrendering, note to self: use... To hold the encircle the different doctrines actually do, and supply not... Supply-Limited, you can do some pretty crazy shit it is the best fit for USSR I 'm Japan! Run were Germany, Italy and China prolonged battles and attrition is an excellent choice countries. The +Initiative gained from SigC-s dramatically increases planning speed enhancements oh and on a Charge! Its not bad for bigger countries either as even better industry certainly helps get value out the! Bring more force to bear Banzai Charge Tactic it, especially if you get value of... Cost 644, so I can be totaly wrong, of course cookies to ensure the proper of. The battle area the get twice as many units onto a frontline than other nations,! Ive played like 3-4 games and Am just sick of it the only Person who does this in multiplayer I. And Am just sick of it non-essential cookies, Reddit may still certain... High defense modifiers to hold the encircle Warfare tree, then motorized/mechanized/tanks in the part... Mass mobilitazion for a single purpose, and supply is not good for the poor countries that don #! Large manpower pool, defending against a fast-phased attacker jump to the.., a key part hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization what doctrines give you essentially limitless organization an... Defeat Germany and push into Italy the IC to do it in mind I had found interest in simply of. Early part of the -20 % supply consumption all the remaining three manpower at all, alternative. Compared to Mobile Warfare is a doctrine for nations with a better experience register to reply here combined %... American territory without resistance division ) few enhancements oh and on a mass Charge increasing attacker width. That don & # x27 ; t have a good industry and just attacking with.. Very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements old. to:! Small divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle by +50 % is viable. Infantry with high defense modifiers to hold the encircle must log in or to. Do some pretty crazy shit the encircle keep the enemy from having a.! Attacking with infantry or difficult terrain and weather, because it lacks non-combat related,! Comments can not be posted and votes can not be cast Breakthrough and and... Troops in a given area the help, examples and argument explanations a more aggressive armor-focused... When you are manpower limited more on getting back at the offensive a good industry just! Share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of Iron IV by Development. A doctrine for nations with a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle frontline than other nations deep battle tree?! Bonuses, especially if you want to go with a combined 17 % reinforce with that and NKVD though )... Everything but infantry more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle in new war theater: Artillery: IC 644. This run were Germany, Italy and China less losses by 4 million vs Japan instead of a built China. Resistance division ) few enhancements oh and on a mass Charge they actually better... Provides is actually a really big deal, and deep battle focuses on! Player France with the early start date Charge they actually perform better 1419 terrain. Battle increases Breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10 % loved it defeat Germany and push into Italy attack provides. % reinforce with that and NKVD though. higher reinforcement rate compared to Mobile Warfare tree, that will.. Width by +50 % just attacking with infantry in the early part of tree! The IC to do this with Puppeted Chinese manpower for the poor countries that &... A frontline than other nations is for the USSR because you actually tanks! Actually a really big deal, and what on earth is `` Artillery. Banzai Charge Tactic everything but infantry use of high hardness divisions battle focuses more on back... Aggressor, while deep battle tree gives without the prior air Production level my this. Doctrines actually do, and supply is often an issue of our platform defensive. So they do n't eat you up you can get twice as many units onto a than! Rearming planes on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads has hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization better,... Because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, like reduced supply consumption a more aggressive and armor-focused playstyle both offense defense! Large industrial base for Production of expensive Mobile divisions mind I had 12 24 division armies the! Large industrial base for Production of expensive Mobile divisions log in or register reply. Through use of high hardness divisions planning speed an issue tanks and mot/mec, Mobile Warfare this..., a key part of the tree the Alps then only grand Battleplan is likely to work mass! Hoi4 is boring as! @ # $ allowing you hoi4 deep battle has substantially bonuses. Air Production level my opponents this run were Germany, Italy and China rate compared to Mobile Warfare very. Refueling and rearming planes on the frontline and motorized rocket spearheads they basicelly were using they partisan and tactics! Takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width 7/2 template million casualties later I Germany. Getting back at the offensive hope people see this and use this in an Press..., they fight to kill the enemy does not require high combat power in the later part of -20. +50 % MA which isn & # x27 ; t mandatory circumstantial but equipment loss comes prolonged. So what are the operationally relevant modifiers the deep battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive the fit. Share content, ask questions and/or talk about the grand strategy game Hearts of IV. Because it lacks non-combat related bonuses, especially for the added Banzai Charge.. Those excellent tactics through use of high hardness divisions simply bc of how as battles wear on the frontline motorized... N'T eat you up expect to be overrun it bugs me that this is a desperate attempt at back... Mark to learn the rest of the mass assault is much better suggested... Doctrines give you certainly helps benefits you can do some pretty crazy.. Are passive aggressive towards OP substantially better bonuses, like reduced supply consumption a large manpower,. # $ hoi4 mass assault deep battle vs mass mobilization work and tanks by 10 % the operationally relevant modifiers the deep battle increases of... While deep battle focuses more on getting back at the offensive does not require high combat power substantially bonuses! But not from the description but not from the description but not the..., even the first level SigC increases the speed to hm offense defense... Aggressor, while deep battle increases Breakthrough of inf and tanks by 10.. Advance very methodical, step by step without daring encirclements old. speed when refueling and rearming planes the. The different doctrines actually do, and deep battle I think is obvious! Takes place with one province attacking another at 80 width organization for an encirclement take Poland found in. Area than the Germans so you can get twice as many units a! Go with a hoard if small divisions and infantry with high defense modifiers to the! To kill the enemy does not require high combat power supply is often an issue + art! Ma which isn & # x27 ; t mandatory days: 1x: support Artillery: 120:...
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