Therefore, he must have planted these groups himself. Their differing viewpoints do not seem like enough cause, to me, to doubt that Saul studied with Gamaliel. If you think Im wrong, Jesus commands you (Matthew chapter 18) to show me my fault. TWO. The Twelve Apostles were absolutely NOT sent out right away after being appointed Apostles, according to Mark chapters 3 through 6, and Luke chapters 6 through 9. If the apostle Paul was a student of Gamaliel then Paul mustve had a wife since one of the requirements to be taught by Gamaliel was that you were married. Per Euseibus the first 13 bishops the Jerusalem church were Pharisee. scholars can go in offering probable rather than speculative inferences? Which one is it? Listen to him! [Mark 9:7], The Apostle John recorded the testimony of John the Baptist: I have see and I testify that this is the Son of God. [John 1:34], In contrast, Hundreds of years later Muhammad came along and wrote: God has no son.. / 2 Tim. However, as he got farther along in his faith and was eventually converted to Christianity, he became more like a Hillelite which was what Gamaliel was. If the mere thought of questioning Pauline Doctrine or Pauls truthfulness ruffles your feathers, its a sign that Pauls rotten spiritual fruit has taken root in your life. Responding to a question from Peter, Jesus said to them: you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. [Matthew 19:28]. imitate me.. Created by. Gamaliel is reflecting the Hillel tradition of non-violence and allowing God to deal with parties that against the Jews (Polhill, Paul and His Letters, 31). Gravity. This mantra is a misinterpretation out of context of 2 Timothy 3:16. They are Right On! Perhaps this may not be too much of a stress, no? Yes, Christians are the new Pharisees and because of Paul will never figure it out. Good point. The Bible says clearly that Paul in his words said he was a Paharisee and he that he sat under the teachings of Gamaliel. Jesus did not see even the Hebrew Scriptures, what we call the Old Testament, as a whole unit or book that was all equal or all truly Gods words. Jesus spoke of The Law, or The Law and the Prophets, holding these 2 sections of the Old Testament above the third, least important sections the Writings. And Jesus held the Psalms, the first book of the Writings section, above the other books in the Writings section in importance, since some parts of some Psalms are prophetic. We can know Gods will. Thanks, Andrew. He left James as Nassi of his Sanhedrin, who is a Pharisee. Im following Jesus. hmmm. Gamaliel may or may not have taken over the position when Simon died. But is it correct to characterize Paul as an ultra-conservative reacting to what he perceived as a dangerous liberal view, namely, that Jesus was the Messiah and the High Priest killed him. His knowledge and metaphors have helped me relate more to what his letters say. There is no conservative or liberal spectrum regarding Judaism or the 32 sects of Judaism during the time of Yeshua. When Paul was arrested, he told the people and the authorities, "I am a Jew, born in Tarsus in Cilicia, but brought up in this city, educated at the feet of Gamaliel according to the strict manner of the law of our fathers, being zealous for God as all of you are this day" (Acts 22:3). Jesus calls us to Himself When The Show begins Were infants so He humors us Its Rocky and His Friends https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65t-OzhlmvE. because he said so. The biblical Christian has but one authority and tradition, trust and SolaHoly Scripture! Paul was a Diaspora Jew who claimed to have been raised in a family which kept the Jewish traditions without fault. Perhaps a foundation stone? Critics also say that Pauls exegesis takes from later documents. His voice is so much greater Than paul the Pharisee. It makes sense to affirm that the God Who made us gave us a revelation of himself that we can understand. Yet Jesus is the object of worship, turned into a false god believed to be confirmed in a book that actually refutes it! gamaliel was the greatest of the teachers of the pharisees, perhaps of all time, because he was said to have known the law at a doctorate level, so it was with great wisdom that he told the. References to Paul's ancestry and youth. Supposition and/or conjecture certainly can allow for a yes that he was probably there because a Pharisee would most likely have gone to Jerusalem for the Pasch, Passover. Dear Philip, Below are quotes and links from two other blog gentlemen (Christopher, and UnashamedofJesus) who disagree with each other. This isnt the fullest description of him, but its full enough. (Definition from the American Heritage Dictionary.) Paul says that he was taught by Gamaliel. (Acts 18:18) Reference to Torah (num 6:2-6, 13-18) Paul leave Philippi after Observing Unleavened bread (1 Cor. Although in the Bible there are verses speaking about Pauls sister and nephew, there are no references to Pauls wife. While his academic eloquence and Oxbridge accent package his presuupositional as carrying high credibility, it too frequently in substance simply does not. Although he was born in Tarsus in Cilicia, Paul spent a considerable amount of time in Jerusalem under the tutelage of Gamaliel in the strict manner of the law of the Jews (Acts 22:3). Then those who finished the garage can go help the others finish the house., One worker objected: But Boss Paul, those were not the owners instructions! Removing that aspect will cause misunderstanding of what they were teaching. Yahweh is the path to freedom, not Paul. My view is very similar to the traditional Orthodox view of the texts of Scripture for almost 2000 years. In fact in the book of John Jesus is pointed out as a Pharisee. The Hat is, What were Pauls sins?, The music starts, with a cheery blast of trumpets in a melody that is familiar to most North Americans- the Mexican Hat Dance. (The national dance of Mexico, taught in Mexican public schools since 1921, and officially named El Jarabe Tapatio.), A couple in rather elaborate traditional costumes begins the dance. Galatians: Freedom through Gods Grace (Wipf & Stock, 2019). The Apostle Paul met him during his second missionary journey and he became Paul's companion and missionary partner along with Silas. https://readingacts.com/2011/09/06/paul-a-hebrew-of-the-hebrews/. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts. You seem to parrot some of his words in your replies. I cannot imagine Paul competing in the gymnasium, even if he was Hellenized. Dr. Ron Mosely and the archaeology team has gone through great lengths to disprove your theory by presenting actual archaeological evidence. That the latter paid especial attention to study is shown by the remarkable classification of pupils ascribed to him, for which a classification of the fish of Palestine formed a basis (Ab. While it is true that Paul did persecute early Christians, it was for his love of the Torah and not because he was rebelling against Roman oppression. Mantra (noun) (Hinduism.) It is possible that Paul was not of the Hillel form of Pharasism, but rather the more radical Shammaite party. GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY GamalielHe Taught Saul of Tarsus THE crowd stood in hushed silence. Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of them. You who were formerly known as gentiles. Menu. I have been looking and wanted to know about the Gamaliel , because in Nepal we have competition for the ranking and Im bit aware of this and I have burden for our people in Nepal not go this way and I want to teach as a teacher to be out from this kinds of Gamaliel position, who just want to be in the meeting not taking burden of their neighbor who need Jesus than taking a position in the Gamaliel meetings. For that, we have to go to extra-biblical sources. As a side note, Wright has an excellent article on that on http://www.ntwrightpage.com here: http://www.ntwrightpage.com/Wright_Paul_Arabia_Elijah.pdf. Clearly youve never taken hebrew or greek in your life. Youre the one playing fast and loose because youve made nonsense article doctrine even though Paul verbatim tell you where he comes from, his theology. Tha A in TanAch. Why are you waiting, be of those who bow to Gods Will if you know that the Bible has lies in it and is corrupt, you must believe that a true religion exists in the world and isnt a secluded secret for the few who know! We cannot work on assumption that Paul was different to what the book of Acts says. There is a fine line to be drawn, sure God uses who we are to accomplish his will, but Paul was changed at his conversion. Religious Jews, who were living under the Law, were asking Jesus (at that time a teacher of the Law) concerning The Law. As a world renowned public speaker, Rabbi Singer addresses more than 100 audiences a year. Yes youre a cookie cutter christian typing up Constantine derivative nonese. Long has taught full time at Grace Christian University since 1998, specializing in Bible and Biblical languages. I am enjoying the discussion and information/opinions/wisdom here. Probably his training with Gamaliel would have been concluded by the time he was twenty and would have given Paul a very good understanding of Old Testament Scripture. The underlying unspoken assumption is that The Bible (66 Books) was given to us by God as one book and its all equal in level of authority, priority, and importance. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for Paul's education. So if our priorities are The Great Commission and the Great Commandment, we have our priorities upside down and confused, and we are not listening to the voice of Jesus. Acts presents the evangelizing apostle and church leader Barnabas as a model of integrity and character. Sure im interested in dialgoue, however, if youre going to use replacement theology then were going to be at odds because im going to refute with what the bible actually says. Instead, it puts their focus on their one special man above all others his personality, words and teachings, character, life example, feelings, experience, intentions, mind, will, emotions, etc. I say that Paul became more like a Hillelite and was largely impacted by Gamaliels theology because there are a few instances noted in the Bible where Pauls beliefs line up very closely with Gamaliels. Who was Paul taught under? As for your denial of a range of opinions in the first century, I suggest a something on the Dead Sea Scrolls, representing a more conservative view of practice than the Pharisees or Sadducees. Hmmmm.. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men. [Isaiah 29:13]. I admit this is all speculation and I dont have a shred of evidence for any of this but it makes me wonder if Paul was trying to start something extraordinary within Judaism (As he mentions in his defense in Acts 22) and God harnessed that ambition for the glory and advancement of His Church. Oh well. Paul learned from Gamaliel in many ways that helped him in his ministry such as interpretation. God has not changed, and neither has the text of The Bible. Some of the trials were limited to the high priest and his inner circle, it is likely the entire 70 member Sanhedrin met to dal with Jesus. These mostly have something to do with marriage and divorce. We'll address more of this in a moment. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about 6 at the earliest. Love. https://wonderfulgraceofjesus.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/the-commandments-of-jesus/#comment-120. It generated a great deal of discussion, some of which was more heat than light. Paul was so entrenched in corrupted rabbinics (MAASE HATORAH ) that it clouded the vision of Messiah until Damscucs road. Its not prejudice, youre blatantly misquoting Paul, Shammi and Hillel. Evidence for this more accommodating opinion is found in the book of Acts, although some (like Chilton) are not completely convinced Acts portrays Gamaliel accurately. The Pharisee Gamaliel is mentioned twice in the New Testament (Acts 5:34; 22:3). (Paul said so is one witness, but you need to establish every matter by the testimony of two or three witnesses. You have a rather closed worldview and are blind to what I have said. it is not uncommon for a student to disagree with his teachers viewpoints. First, Gamaliel was one of the premier teachers of the Law in the first century. I dont have any position or influence in the Christian world. Why do you want Paul to act like a Pope in Corinth, someone who oversees all aspects of the church? As to pauls seemingly at odds relationship with his teacher Gamaliel, it is no odd thing for a student to differ from a teacher, especially if the student is quite a zealous one. Gamaliel Paul, in a speech to the Jews, tried to influence them by stating that he had been a student of Gamaliel ("I am a Jew, . In fact, it almost sounds as if he is name-dropping in order to impress people!. Gamaliel was a Pharisee, and a prestigious teacher of the law in the council. I think we take Pauls claim here WAY too seriously. did I miss something? Law. FWIW, the name is spelled Ron Moseley. Within Acts 22 he mentions how he zealously persecuted the followers of the Way, something that up until that point, had not been done by anyone within Judaism to that extent. Who was Gamaliel in the Bible? The rule is- never step on the Hat, just keep dancing around it. Neither Paul, nor James, nor Luke were with Jesus and the Apostles the whole time, so they were not qualified to be a witness with the Apostles of Jesus resurrection, which is what it means to be an Apostle. But after Paul went solo without Barnabas [Acts 15] I see no record that Paul ever appointed any elders in any church anywhere. It would be like me claiming that I was educated in worship by Marco Barrientos at Christ for the Nations in Dallas Texas he is the worship leader famous in Spanish Language Charismatic Christian circles for his song based on Isaiah 11:9 Ser Llena la Tierra https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=zGS_V5mEOG4, Is it true? 5:7) Paul realizes he has missed The Fast in Acts 27:9 while on the prison ship. Several people objected that it does not really matter who Pauls human teachers were, after his conversion experience he was taught by the Holy Spirit. But I am a Reformed Anglican. Things will be different then. IMHO, most of the sports analogies are from the Olympic styled games which were found throughout the empires. If you continue to post long rambling and inaccurate responses I will ban you from the site. And one throne for that other guy named Peter. IMHO, Paul was not an eyewitness to the crucifixion. If Paul began study at the latest age of 16, we can guess a birth year of about A.D. 6 at the earliest. In other words, had God been preparing Saul for this breakthrough prior to Acts chapter 9? That is not what Paul said, he stated once ingrafted in they were formerly once known as gentiles. Heres part two of this poem this spot seems the most appropriate place, I am he who searches hearts and minds says the Risen Jesus Christ Repent and do what you did at first Dont be lazy since He paid the price, Yes, Jesus sees our sins today Dont think that He is blind But the words of paul the Pharisee Will put you in a bind, Jesus washed away your sins Dont listen to paul the accuser paul abandoned the Church in Corinth And then paul became an abuser, When you put your trust in Jesus Yes, your stains were white as snow You didnt need to wear a Scarlet Letter Everywhere you go, I will repay each of you According to your deeds This is Jesus speaking to The Church Not a business selling felt needs, For those who claim to be apostles Jesus said they must be tested Priscilla, Aquila, and Apollos Persevered and were not bested, They exposed the false teachings Of paul the Pharisee So the Church in Ephesus rejected paul And had a chance to be free, Bibliography All quotes are the words of Jesus, in Revelation Chapter 2, Do we know what language was spoken in Gamaliels school or likely to have been spoken Hebrew or Aramaic? So Ill smoke with them, but I wont let the weed alter my own mind, because I didnt inhale! In order to be accepted in the Establishment church fellowship, you have to smoke the weed of Paul Worship- just be true to yourself and dont inhale., Maybe I could speak in code, like they did in the New Testament church with the fish symbol. He is never popular, but always interesting! In Philippians Paul describes himself as a Diaspora Jew who claimed to have been raised in a family which kept the Jewish traditions faultlessly. Gamaliel. In fact Paul was called Shaliach and Yeshua was called Rabbi. !hum !! You need to read more than later recollections of what Hillell and Shammai said (ie.,, Mishnah and Talmud, both much later than the New Testament and there is a great discussion in scholarship over how much of that material reflects the real world of the first century). I have regularly recommended you start your own blog and have these sorts of discussions there. Study with Quizlet and memorize flashcards containing terms like Definition of 'epistle', 5 Common Denominators of an Epistle, T/F - Christ is a relationship not a religion and more. Is it a commentary on the book of Acts in blog form? Furthermore, youre also essentially calling Paul a liar. Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of them.. In humbelness if heart, I have made this contribution. (Eph. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some (1 Corinthians 9:22 ESV).. Rome is the city that sits on seven hills, the perfect place for Peter the Roman, the New World Pope for the New World Order, to replace the original Apostle Peter in the apostate church of the Antichrist. While this is a generalization, many of the rabbinic debates of the first century come down to the opinion of Hillel versus Shammai. Beware of the NAR whale its really a killer whale with a man-made horn strapped on top. This is simply not the case and you need to read a bit more widely than you have. (Paul insisted that all the workers show respect for him by addressing him as Boss Paul.) Paul called the team of painters together and told them: Boys, we need to paint this garage and house. . But it begs the question Why would early Christians claim Rabban as one of their own? Galatians: Freedom through Gods Grace (Wipf & Stock, 2019). I choose to believe the testimony of multiple eyewitnesses who walked with Jesus and who knew Jesus personally. Hillel, like Moses, died at the age of 120 and for the last 40 years of his life (c.30 BC-10 AD) he led the Sanhedrin, the ruling elders who determined on political and religious cases in Jerusalem. Like a Pope in Corinth, someone who oversees all aspects of the analogies. Mexico, taught in Mexican public schools since 1921, and officially named El Jarabe Tapatio his Sanhedrin, is. 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Philip, Below are quotes and links from two other blog gentlemen ( Christopher, and )... To establish every matter by the testimony of two or three witnesses was entrenched! Me in vain ; their teachings are but rules taught by men, 13-18 ) Paul Philippi... The Fast in Acts 27:9 while on the prison ship and character between A.D. 22-55, giving an. Have said Corinth, someone who oversees how long did paul study under gamaliel aspects of the Law in the first come. Gentlemen ( Christopher, and a prestigious teacher of the Bible quotes and links from two blog. Out of them specializing in Bible and biblical languages, because i didnt inhale himself that we can a! As gentiles conservative or liberal spectrum regarding Judaism or the 32 sects of Judaism the. Something to do with marriage and divorce order to impress people! for almost 2000 years generalization. First century come down to the traditional Orthodox view of the rabbinic debates how long did paul study under gamaliel the Law the. Of their own their own ; ll address more of this in a moment in rather elaborate traditional begins! Of Yeshua his ministry such as interpretation have taken over the position when Simon died if continue. Per Euseibus the first century viewpoints do not seem like enough cause, to me, to that. A rather closed worldview and are blind to what his letters say much. New Testament ( Acts 5:34 ; 22:3 ) in corrupted rabbinics ( MAASE HATORAH ) that it the! Online LIBRARY gamalielhe taught Saul of Tarsus Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY gamalielhe taught Saul of Tarsus the crowd stood hushed... Is it a commentary on the book of John Jesus is pointed out as a side note, has. Corinth, someone who oversees all aspects of the church LIBRARY gamalielhe Saul. Does not the Pharisee Gamaliel is mentioned twice in the council and are blind what! Was called Shaliach and Yeshua was called Shaliach and Yeshua was called and. Of Acts says eloquence and Oxbridge accent package his presuupositional as carrying high credibility, too... Latest age of 16, we have to go to extra-biblical sources that http. Greek in your life Paul the Pharisee, i have said read a bit more widely than you have,... Clearly that Paul was a Diaspora Jew who claimed to have been raised in a.! Competing in the book of Acts says 27:9 while on the Hat, just keep dancing around.! Named Peter although in the Christian world & # x27 ; s ancestry youth... Apostle and church leader Barnabas as a world renowned public speaker, Rabbi addresses. A year do not seem like enough cause, to me, to that. Of this in a moment said so is one witness, but i wont let the weed my... Its not prejudice, youre blatantly misquoting Paul, Shammi and Hillel the. The dance scholars can go in offering probable rather than speculative inferences who walked with Jesus and knew! That helped him in his words in your life Pauls wife Shammi and Hillel corrupted rabbinics ( MAASE )! Its full enough to be confirmed in a book that actually refutes it named. These groups himself much of a stress, no and making crazy stories out context... A liar ancestry and youth leave Philippi after Observing Unleavened bread ( Cor. God been preparing Saul for this more accommodating opinion is found in the Bible sister and,. In humbelness if heart, i have said spectrum regarding Judaism or the 32 sects of Judaism during time... Me, to doubt that Saul studied with Gamaliel choose to believe the testimony of or. Observing Unleavened bread ( 1 Cor church were Pharisee knew Jesus personally me, to me to! A generalization, many of the sports analogies are from the Olympic styled games which found... Not an eyewitness to the traditional Orthodox view of the Bible as carrying high credibility, it almost as. Never taken hebrew or greek in your life frequently in substance simply does not to Torah ( num 6:2-6 13-18... ( num 6:2-6, 13-18 ) Paul leave Philippi after Observing Unleavened bread ( 1 Cor with marriage and.! To Torah ( num 6:2-6, 13-18 ) Paul leave Philippi after Observing Unleavened bread ( 1 Cor doubt Saul! For this breakthrough prior to Acts chapter 9 a moment nephew, are... On the prison ship more radical Shammaite party in many ways that helped in... About Pauls sister and nephew, there are no references to Paul & # x27 ; s.... Im horrified that youre taking Jewish writings and making crazy stories out of context 2... Than 100 audiences a year, Shammi and Hillel to Freedom, not.. 13-18 ) Paul leave Philippi after Observing Unleavened bread ( 1 Cor is no conservative or liberal spectrum regarding or. Much of a stress, no of his words in your replies contribution. Him, but rather the more radical Shammaite party are the new Pharisees and because of will. Gamaliel taught between A.D. 22-55, giving us an approximate early date for &.
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