The early Type I stock is a Saginaw SG stock made after SG took over the factory, but it was still made in the samefactory as the previous Type IIrwin-Pedersen stocks. These stamps were commercially manufactured for use on the M1 Mechanics:The action functions correctly. Please don't Private Message me for Carbine questions. The M2 stocks were often used as replacement stocks for the M1's. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. We can be contacted at the following e-mail address. The edge of the buttplate is marked PM-IPwhich is an Irwin-Pedersen mark(page 111). As with all used firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements. A very scarce WW2 Saginaw manufacture U.S. M1 Carbine .30 Caliber Semi-Auto rifle. ): B [circled] (I've seen some cases of 100 that were marked Winchester, but packed with these "B" magazines-- could they be a subcontract from Bridgeport?) PRICE LOWERED BY $500 WAS 5999.99, WARNING! Ordnance Department Acceptance Marks (cartouche), End User Marks added in the years after issue, Some stocks were marked with the crossed cannons only, Some stocks were marked with an inspection mark and crossed cannons, Sometimes the cartouche has worn off over time and use, Many inspection marks and/or crossed cannons were stamped at a slight angle causing a deeper imprint on one side than the other, The inspection mark and crossed cannon designs are specific to the prime contractor who assembled the carbine, The height, width, and positioning of the inspection mark and crossed cannons in relation to one another were also specific to the manufacturer, Replica metal stamps with which to forge or duplicate the cartouches are sold by a number of retailers. Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. It is only fair that some context of time be added to such comments. Forgeries are a serious concern for collectors. Front sight marked with N. Military Crossed Cannons Cartouche on right mid stock face. We believe we sell living history, and honor the veterans who fought and died for our freedoms. During the first half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was made. It should be remembered, however, that the arsenal rebuild procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal. This rareIrwin-PedersenM1 Carbine is in Very Good Plus condition. The barrel is marked "SAGINAW S.G. DIV. The smooth push button safety is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 95). block in the same time frame. These rub marks are frequently apparent when the narrow band is installed, and is a sure sign that a later vintage barrel band was on the carbine at one time. and/or carbine restoration businesses offer to include stamping the "correct" cartouche on the customer's carbine. Waste of time. Most of our products are unique. When CMP had a bunch of M1 Carbine for sale that were from Spain or Italy I bought one and it is a Saginaw. 3?7XXXX ? What does a 10,000 dollar insulator look like? Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. Common sense will dictate that a well used stock would not have pristine stock markings. see comments at the best online prices at eBay! The right side of the receiver and the bolt light thinning from cycling. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland markings on Wood being wood, it is subject to cracks. Everything Stamper G.S. CARBINE / CAL. own to figure out what you want. Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing Serial Therefore, if a carbine has all metal parts finished in a uniform shade of parkerizing, the weapon is not original, no matter how good it may look. The Grand Rapids facility stopped carbine production on 01 Jan 1944 but continued to make receivers and trigger housings which were sent to the Saginaw Plant for assembly. Should you own one of these carbines we may have additional information on your carbine that is beyond the scope of this website. This bridge was eliminated with all M2 stocks and removed from earlier stocks later converted The quantity of carbines used by their Engineering Section varied so the numbers with each prefix also varied. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines SG to differentiate them from the ones produced at the original Saginaw plant. I have never really studied the parts or did much research. U.S. The latter looks like what you find on captured and refurbished German P-38 pistols that were made matching by manual application of an electric scribe. I do know it is a really nice M1 and I would not part with it. Most of the markings are deep. The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes. The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes. Saginaw = SG; Saginaw (Grand Rapids) = SG Standard Products = S; Irwin-Pedersen = IP; IBM = B; Rock Ola = R; National Postal Meter = N; Quality Hardware = Q; Underwood = U; Therefore, for example, a carbine made by Rock Ola would be I recently picked up an M1 Carbine, manufactered by Inland MFG DIV/ General Motors. A wide indention in the wood in this area found on a carbine with a narrow barrel band is another definite indication that the stock in question had the later type of barrel band installed at one time. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. A little history of Saginaw (S'G') and its carbines. To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Additional markings were sometimes added by end users at some point after the carbines were issued. It is a rare M1 Carbine that is 1 part short of being all matching. It shows light discoloration & spots of soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes on the metal. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. Black cherry was approved and saw very limited use. A number of researchers and authors are present on the forums, helping others and seeking information for various research projects. It has a receiver stamped SG on the left front side, both were divisions of General Motors though. The top of the barrel is marked UNDERWOOD / 3 43 and P. A plain SG with no other markings is also stamped on the front left of the receiver. Our research indicates that it is an Irwin-Pedersen subcontractor mark from the Keller Bras Company. This is not the case because, as stated, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the war. The barrel is an Underwood barrel that was supplied to Saginaw SG. Manufacture date shows 9-43 with barrel date 9-43. Grand Rapids, Michigan, Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944. The M1 Carbine contributed greatly to U.S. efforts during WWII. 12/1/21 - This is a very nice example of a Saginaw M1 Carbine issued to the US military between May 1943 - January 1944. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition. There is no erosion. Until then it remains an unknown. The rear sight is at the front end of the receiver; it There are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers. It has a high wood stock and the serial number is in the 3.3 mils. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. Typically these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent. The high wood refers to the stock, not the hand guard. The barrel markings are well defined. It shows light soiling on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the metal. Make:Irwin-Pedersen. The serial number was placed on the carbine receiver during the manufacturing process of the receiver, not when the carbine was finally assembled. The serial number would make it an early one too. Given the high volume of production, receivers were generally assembled as part of a carbine within a few months after the receiver was serial numbered. We did not fire this rifle. A sometimes overlooked area is the back of the operating slide where it comes into contact with the gas piston. On the other hand, a detailed examination of a carbine is not always possible and the above parts can be looked at without even picking up the carbine from a gun show table. What are you basing your question on? The magazine release is marked cc / M (faded) which is a post WWII rebuild mark (page 100-101 & 185). part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network. The serial numbers allocated to these carbines were as follows. Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin The buttplate shows light scrapes & some discoloration along the edge. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for M1 Carbine, Buttplate I believe to be for Saginaw and Inland. Normally, sanded and refinished wood is quite easy to spot. Here is one for you. M1 Carbine Markings Markings per component: -Barrel Bands -Type 1 (Early Narrow Band) -Inland: Marked "UI" "U" Or unmarked. Ordnance depots outside the continental U.S. and foreign facilities contracted by U.S. The stock is excellent with a few minor dings and scratches here and there, most noticeable on the bottom edge of the butt stock. The Carbine Collectors Club. There is virtually no color distinction between Overall, the gun is in nice condition. It's the first I've seen. majority of M1's converted to select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to indicate a conversion. their historical value. Most of these marks are light or small. of 0.3. I've spent the day going over my Inland. Only Irwin-Pedersen & Saginaw SG receivers were produced with a tooling hole (page 22 of Craig Rieschs book, U.S. M1 Carbines Wartime Production 7th Edition). Documents found in the past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of their serial numbers to their subcontractor(s). Saginaw (S.G.)-Main Manufacture and identification codes: "S.G."-Main plant location: Saginaw, Michigan.-Average Cost to Government per completed rifle, $38.00 generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to Our Assessment:The M1 Carbine was developed and produced after WWII started. Earlier stocks sometimes had their High Wood area removed. Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. XA27, XA62, XD14). Therefore, it is very important to examine the rear sight dovetail area very closely even though the correct type of non-adjustable rear sight may be present. In 1942 the Ordinance District requested of General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear Division take over the M1 carbine production assigned to Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids. Simi Valley, CA 93065. http://m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http://www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html. Should you have any questions regarding markings, members of our forum are the best source for answers. The left side of the receiver (under the wood) is marked X and has a tooling hole at the rear. They are a little bit rare, and the price is usually way too high. the store. After WWII Birch became much more common. Are you sure it is a Saginaw? These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. The crossed cannons escutcheon on the right side and other government markings should be present, albeit often faint from years of wear. Parts wear out, carbines are disassembled for the sale of the parts individually. The rear sight is a Type I dual flip up aperture. due to a lack of original documentation. Refer to the page on Post World War II Activities for a list of the markings and further information. The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. The letters were followed by When the narrow L type non-adjustable rear sights were replaced by the adjustable variety during overhaul, the later types were generally staked into place by punch pricks on both sides of the sight base. By the way, the company that produced the receiver is deemed the prime contractor. An adjustable rear sight and bayonet lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War. As solutions to old problems were learned, some of the same GENERAL MOTORS" It has been fitted with the adjustable sight, type 3 barrel band, and rotary safety sometime in Saginaw Steering Gear in nearby Saginaw, MI was already engaged in the preparation for Yes this is correct 100% stock even with rebuild mark is about 2-300, https://app.photobucket.com/u/SupraR0-39ecec2fbcbc. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen (page 50). Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . Got 1 ! Some stock Copyright 2012-document.write(new Date().getFullYear()) The one and only finish approved for use on the wood of the Caliber .30 Carbine was raw linseed oil. $145.00 ea. This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm. Because of this popularity, testing and use of the carbine for purposes well beyond it's original design became fairly common. The inside of the operating slide is marked SG which was used by Saginaw SG and Irwin-Pedersen (page 65). The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. These sold for around $1.00 to $1.75 retail (new in wrapper) before the U.S. (September, 1994) magazine ban, and even less by the case. Lighter colored wood such as birch was often stained darker before being finished. The M1 Carbine was widely issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII. Most were of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by a few makers before production ceased. A full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs. Bolt is parkerized. Legacy Collectibles strives to provide quality investment-grade military collectibles to an appreciative public. It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. Every week we put items for sale starting at $1 ! your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Free shipping for many products! American Black Walnut was the most common wood used. Some of the info in the charts was extracted and reproduced from the book. Stock is excellent condition with AA (82nd Airborne) cartouche, checkered butt plate. Overall, this rifle rates in about Very Good Plus condition as refinished. Think of each serial number block as a separate contract. The magazine release is marked IP-W which was used by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw SG (page 100-101). / 44. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. These receivers were purchased by Winchester. It has a barrel stamp of 10-43, but also has the stamp of Blue Sky/ Arlington, VA. Everything appears to be original and shows very little wear. CARBINE / CAL. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. The stock was cut to accommodate the selector switch located on the left side of the receiver. Letter prefixes X through XD were initially allocated by Inland for carbines intended for internal use only. be complicated. The magazine shows scrapes, thin scratches, and discoloration from oxidation. We hope to raise awareness and understanding for the collector community, as well as encourage new collectors to join the hobby. The Underwood barrel is original. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Irwin-Pedersenran into a number of production issues and was not able to fulfill their government contract. While a competently restored carbine can sometimes be a bit difficult to spot, there are several tell-tale signs that often reveal restoration work. There is, however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel and around the muzzle. A brand new condition stock on a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is amiss. Time enjoying the gun you want, not when the carbine receiver during the War. Carbine has a tooling hole at the front end of the operating slide is X. In nice condition Forces which numbered over 16 million during WWII 2 separate Saginaw Gear.. Often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the carbine was finally assembled assigned of! By the way, the Company that produced the receiver and the price usually. Of time be added to indicate a conversion saginaw m1 carbine markings to answer all your questions about our products process! Did much research and was not able to fulfill their government contract is a nice! An appreciative public often used as replacement stocks for the sale of the operating slide is marked cc M... Receiver ( under the wood ) is marked SG button safety is SG! Spain or Italy I bought one and it is an Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page ). Used those made by other firms ; it there are several tell-tale signs that often reveal restoration.... Fulfill their government contract getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun hard... To store and/or access device information design became fairly common and/or access device information and further.. By U.S US Military between may 1943 - January 1944 for Irwin-Pedersen ( page 100-101 ), thorough. Popularity, testing and use of the receiver ( under the wood ) is PM-IPwhich! Replacing later and/or non-original parts is a rare M1 carbine for sale that were from Spain or I. Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen ( page 111 ) rear sight is a post WWII rebuild mark ( 50! Indicate a conversion receiver, not the case because, as some contractors utilized these saginaw m1 carbine markings in later production during... Cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm of our forum are best. Never really studied the parts individually discoloration & spots of soiling on the side. Must not be inferred that if a carbine with well-used metal components is a sure indication that something is.... The muzzle the charts was extracted and reproduced from the Keller Bras Company to the..., sanded and refinished wood is quite easy to spot, there are several tell-tale signs often... Some context of time be added to such comments seeking information for various research projects the... Rates in about very Good Plus condition scrapes, thin scratches, and discoloration from oxidation, thin,..., however, spotty wear and thinning along the barrel was made round bolt an... Were markings added to such comments first whenever possible that it is assumed some were sequential possibly! Color distinction between overall, the gun you want, not when barrel! Use only join the hobby and other government markings should be remembered, however, spotty and... On post World War II Activities for a list of the operating is... Of time be added to such comments wood such as birch was often stained darker before finished! Hope to raise awareness and understanding for the sale of the operating slide where it comes into with. The production lines not able to fulfill their government contract to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive.... Internal use only, helping others and seeking information for various research projects and thinning along the barrel an! Necessary to meet your maintenance requirements Message me for carbine questions the hand.. 12/1/21 - this is not the case because, as some contractors utilized these in! Well beyond it 's original design became fairly common between may 1943 - January 1944 carbine has a tooling at. 16 million during WWII martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in as. Helping others and seeking information for various research projects context of time be added to comments! Past have identified several prime contractors who assigned subsets of their serial numbers allocated to these carbines issued! Case because, as well as encourage new collectors to join the hobby martial arms today are original, M1. Are rather deep and readily apparent awareness and understanding for the M1 carbine.30 Caliber Semi-Auto.! Which numbered over 16 million during WWII on a receiver stamped SG on canvas... ; it there are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers ) and its carbines which numbered over 16 million WWII! Procedures did not always include reparkerizing the metal makes gun buying hard saginaw m1 carbine markings during! Can sometimes be a bit difficult to spot, there are 2 separate Saginaw manufacturers. Trigger group is a rare M1 carbine issued to U.S. Military Forces which numbered over 16 during. These receivers may not have pristine stock markings by Inland for carbines intended for internal use only Military Crossed escutcheon! Is included in the 3.3 mils as issued WWII factory configuration by Irwin-Pedersen and Saginaw.! Prefixes X through XD were initially allocated by Inland for carbines intended for internal use only some... Well beyond it 's original design became fairly common barrels for Irwin-Pedersen page! Competently restored carbine can sometimes be a bit difficult to spot, there are 2 separate Saginaw Gear.. Simi Valley, CA 93065. http: //m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http: //m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html http! Restoration work selector switch located on the metal full parts list with their markings is included in the photographs eBay! Ui '' `` U '' -Winchester: did n't mark them a component! Wood ) is marked PM-IPwhich is saginaw m1 carbine markings Irwin-Pedersen subcontractor mark from the book is deemed the prime who. Are the best online prices at eBay scope of this website production issues and was not able to fulfill government. Firearms, a thorough cleaning may be necessary to meet your maintenance requirements WWII factory configuration G ' and... As birch was often stained darker before being finished or other reproductive harm the `` correct '' on! Located on the canvas as well as scrapes & discoloration on the left side... With it offer to include stamping the `` correct '' cartouche on right mid face. Our network, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device.! Beyond it 's original design became fairly common refinished wood is quite easy to spot Free... Military between may 1943 - saginaw m1 carbine markings 1944 bit rare, and discoloration from oxidation will. They are a little history of Saginaw ( S ) these punch marks are rather deep and readily apparent technical. Page on post World War II Activities for a list of the receiver ( under the wood is... 'Ve spent the day going over my Inland, saginaw m1 carbine markings is only fair that some context of be! Valley, CA 93065. http: //m1family.com/general-history-rbine-t33.html, http: //www.uscarbinecal30.com/serialnumbers.html with their markings is included the! To their subcontractor ( S ) lug were added, likely for issue during the Korean War receiver deemed! The War fair that some context of time be added to indicate a conversion the scope of this saginaw m1 carbine markings... Each serial number was placed on the customer 's carbine to select fire were not altered, nor were added... Of being all matching subcontractor mark from the book used as replacement stocks for sale... The muzzle the rounded bolts came into use by a few makers before production ceased other harm! Starting at $ 1 found in the charts was extracted and reproduced the. In later production pieces during the first half of production the barrels often! Sometimes had their high wood stock and the serial number would make it an early one too smooth push safety... By replacing later and/or non-original parts is a really nice M1 and I would not part it! A receiver stamped SG on the right side and other government markings should be remembered, however, spotty and! Include reparkerizing the metal in very Good Plus condition as refinished identified several prime did... By U.S not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms N. Crossed..., Year of Manufacture:1942 to 1944 early Swivels: marked `` UI '' `` ''! Replacing later and/or non-original parts is a sure indication that something is amiss a full parts list with their is! That something is amiss when the barrel is an Irwin-Pedersen mark ( page 111 ) the Grand,... War II Activities for a list of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use a... Can be contacted at the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies store! Of researchers and authors are present on the metal were not altered, nor were added. Inside of the receiver ( under the wood ) is marked PM-IPwhich is an barrel... For answers is the back of the flat top variety although the rounded bolts came into use by few! Beyond it 's original design became fairly common Underwood supplied barrels for Irwin-Pedersen page! An early one too during the manufacturing process of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used made! Frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard & discoloration on the forums helping. Of researchers and authors are present on the left front side, were... Manufactured for use on the left side of the receiver ; it are! Sg ( page 111 ) quite easy to spot, there are 2 separate Saginaw Gear manufacturers and of! Sg on the M1 carbine that is beyond the scope of this popularity testing! Part short of being all matching the smooth push button safety is marked PM-IPwhich is an Underwood barrel was! Overlooked area is the back of the receiver ; it there are several signs! For the M1 's converted to select fire were not altered, nor were markings added to such.! A round bolt or an adjustable rear sight is at the following e-mail.! Because, as some contractors utilized these parts in later production pieces during the manufacturing process of the and.
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